[zanog-discuss] vote in the upcoming afrinic elections.

Nishal Goburdhan nishal at controlfreak.co.za
Fri May 28 13:02:11 SAST 2021

On 27 May 2021, at 19:27, Paul Wollner wrote:

> Hi Nishal

hi paul,

> I have to disagree with you.

this is why we debate :-)

> It is members’, including all the businesses’ choice to be part of 
> AFRINIC member base, empowering AFRINIC.

actually, it is not.  in 2004, arin had their regional public policy 
discussion meeting in dar es salaam  (hi frank!) and i asked a similar 
question.  and i got a reply from arin, and the ripe-ncc (and not 
afrinic) indicating how they would be dealing with allocations post 
formation of afrinic.  i am afraid you won’t like the answer  :-)

> If a large percentage of the membership disagree with AFRINIC, and 
> setup XNIC and run its own database, they entirely can.

and i want to believe that i am young and beautiful.  but the world says 
(and operates) otherwise.
anyway, the anarchist in me is curious;  break down XNIC for us please.  
at base, you’d need a source for addresses, and given that the 
addresses that you have now are *leased* from afrinic, you’d have to 
return these.  to get supply from an IANA you’d need to subscribe to 
an ICP-2-type [1] document, and, frankly, i’m curious as to how you 
see that happening.

> No law in the world forces you to recognise AFRINIC, or any RIR for 
> that matter’s database as the only athletic database of the 
> internet. The decentralised nature of the internet allow any part of 
> it to leave or join at anytime.
> So if enough members of RIR system choose a different system, and 
> choose to refuse to recognise the RIR system tomorrow, they have the 
> rights to do so and no law in any country prevent that.

just like how you can run your mail server on tcp:80.  we have already 
seen how that played out;  see my comment about the ALT-ROOTs from 
it isn’t about law, paul;  it’s about agreeing to co-operate in a 
self-governing system.  that is what keeps the internet moving and 
growing.  if you want to talk about introducing law, then, many things 
change, and not necessarily for the better.  i engage with enough 
policy-makers to know that if we simply let them loose on the internet, 
that’s not going to end up in an outcome that serves either party 
well.  believe me when i say, i speak with abject frustration here.

> The cooperation of business to AFRINIC’s registration database are 
> entirely VOLUNTARY, and by its nature, it is the members that empower 
> AFRINIC, not the other way around.

paul, i’m not sure why you think this works in this manner.
it really doesn’t, and i fear it is going to take more than just a 
quick reply to a mailing list to explain this.
perhaps the ZANOG adming team can setup some tutorial to help educate 
the community?

> No body “own” those  “integers”, let alone “let African 
> network gets their own address space”.

yes, they are leased.  we know this :-)

[snip a lot of spurious rhetoric]

> Your very argument claim they still have free space.

i made no such claim.  i simply want to correct the misrepresentation of 
how the INR system works.  because you might *want* it to work in a 
particular manner, does not mean that this is how it operates.

> And I am here try to save the organisation before it collapses, and 
> make sure future distribution of space will be effective, members have 
> freedom to manage their space, and with a functioning open transparent 
> market.

i can respect the desire to do good.  so, as ben has already asked, how 
do you see yourself accomplishing this?
ie.  what changes are you proposing?  i should add that i am vaguely 
worried that someone who is proposing an alternate XNIC type system 
wants to be on the board of an existing NIC, but, i’m ever-hopeful (hi 
andrew!) that i misinterpreted what you wrote.

regardless, good luck to you, mark, and vika.


[1]  for the casual reader, ICP-2 is the document that defines the 
criteria for a new RIR.  see 

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