[zanog-discuss] vote in the upcoming afrinic elections.

Noah noah at neo.co.tz
Thu May 27 20:45:07 SAST 2021

Hi Paul

I am sorry but you don't have a clue what you are talking about. The last
thing a member like myself would want is to have you as a director of the
AFRINIC board. because you are clearly clueless about the responsibilities
of an AFRINIC board of directors just from reading all your responses on
this list.

FWIW, AFRINIC is a better option for the large member base compared to
brokers who are your supporters in this endeavor.

Larus for instance does not benefit AFRINIC resource members since;

- brokers don't provide IRR registry services
- brokers don't run RDNS,
- brokers don't run instances of anycast root servers
- brokers don't run a WHOIS database,
- brokers dont research on INTERNET Measurements,
- brokers don't provide RPKI Trust anchors,
- brokers don't provide capacity building, training resource members and
- brokers are not involved in promoting collaboration or Internet
governance - etc etc etc
- brokers don't understand what multi stakeholder engagement is all about

Meanwhile, some brokers believe AFRINIC should be some sort of a
bookkeeper, and that clueless young man Heng Lu has publicly claimed as
such.  Larus' dream of becoming a mini-AFRINIC started in 2014 through its
affiliate Cloud Innovation Ltd which currently faces AFRINIC (*Over* *1600
resource*) members in the Mauritius courts.

Brokers often spread false claims about how AFRINIC is making it difficult
for members to get IPv4 space as a way to justify their IPv$ business and
one therefore wonders, how AFRINIC ended up with over 1600 members if
indeed AFRINIC was really that difficult.

Look at the below nonsense for instance...

Subject: IPv4 Addresses Solutions

The IPv4 exhaustion is more critical, getting IPv4 addresses from
traditional methods like applying from RIRs, NIRs are almost not possible
now. LARUS, the best IP solution company globally with a big amount of IPv4
can help you deal with the lacking of the IPV4 problems. The big Telcos,
ISP, Hosting companies...etc are all using our IPv4 services. If you need
/24 /23 /22.../16 or more, you can contact me at m.ngo at larus.net.

Thanks and I am looking forward to serving you.

Best regards,
Mike Ng
Business Development Specialist
LARUS Limited

While brokers objectives are clearly to turn IPv4 integers into a product
that can be monetized for profit.

AFRINIC a non-profit is guided by the below objectives....

*Bylaws Section 3.4)(i) to provide the service of allocating and
registering Internet resources for the purposes of enabling communications
via open system network protocols and to assist in the development and
growth of the Internet in the African region;*
*(iii) to promote responsible management of Internet resources throughout
the African region, as well as the responsible development and operation of
Internet infrastructures;   *

And I refer you to the below mailing list archives....

1. When someone once claimed some bs, only to later on spam members with
IPv$ leasing deals
-  https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/004161.html

2. When someone was bursted trying to influence the AFRINIC PDP and almost
brought it to its knees by rendering the PDP ineffective through his Larus
foundation and its fellows
-  https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2019/009734.html

Like, honest Abe, once coined.... “*You can fool some of the people all of
the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all
of the people all of the time*.”

Please do yourself a favor and drop an email to the AFRINIC pioneers like
the great Alan Barrett,  Prof.Nii Quaynor and others and perhaps you will
understand why they tirelessly worked for this region to have its own RIR
and become independent from ARIN/RIPE etc.

Do yourself also a favour and find out if IANA recognizes brokers please.
We would be glad to know.

neo - network engineering and operations

PS:AFRINIC may have its fair share of challenges, but believe me, we see
them solving them. But am sorry, the last thing AFRINIC needs now, is a
misguided and conflicted director at the organisation's highest level of

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 8:27 PM Paul Wollner via zanog-discuss <
zanog-discuss at lists.nog.net.za> wrote:

> Hi Nishal
> I have to disagree with you.
> It is members’, including all the businesses’ choice to be part of AFRINIC
> member base, empowering AFRINIC.
> If a large percentage of the membership disagree with AFRINIC, and setup
> XNIC and run its own database, they entirely can.
> No law in the world forces you to recognise AFRINIC, or any RIR for that
> matter’s database as the only athletic database of the internet. The
> decentralised nature of the internet allow any part of it to leave or join
> at anytime.
> So if enough members of RIR system choose a different system, and choose
> to refuse to recognise the RIR system tomorrow, they have the rights to do
> so and no law in any country prevent that.
> The cooperation of business to AFRINIC’s registration database are
> entirely VOLUNTARY, and by its nature, it is the members that empower
> AFRINIC, not the other way around.
> No body “own” those  “integers”, let alone “let African network gets their
> own address space”. When IP address were invented, it was never the intent
> to be geographical. Instead, it by it’s birth promoted a one world concept
> that does not discriminate based on your location, your colour,
> nationality, let alone continent. You seem to say that somehow African
> networks will not get IPs if not for AFRINIC when,  in fact, many African
> networks today, some very large ones, claim they are far better off without
> AFRINIC. AFRINIC themselves estimate 30% revenue loss if an inter RIR
> policy passes. African networks do not want to deal with AFRINIC at this
> moment, the organisation is so poorly managed, people would rather stay
> with RIPE while using their space here in AFRICA. Andrew Alston has
> publicly said that in the past in which he represents one of continent’s
> largest networks. So, NO. If anything, AFRINIC have done a horrible job in
> distributing and maintaining their registration database. Marred by
> corruption and scandals, they are NOT empowering its members.
> Your very argument claim they still have free space while other RIR’s
> don’t is exactly the proof of that. Everywhere in the continent we hear
> about  people who needs IPs that struggle to apply for them from AFRINIC.
> There is an inability to distribute IPs effectively and in the same time
> have their own staff members steal the IPs and sell it in the black market.
> This is not empowering members, it is slowing the development of AFRICA as
> a whole.
> And I am here try to save the organisation before it collapses, and make
> sure future distribution of space will be effective, members have freedom
> to manage their space, and with a functioning open transparent market.
> Regards
> Paul
> ---- On Thu, 27 May 2021 14:57:15 +0200 *Nishal Goburdhan via
> zanog-discuss <zanog-discuss at lists.nog.net.za
> <zanog-discuss at lists.nog.net.za>>* wrote ----
> On 26 May 2021, at 18:09, Paul Wollner via zanog-discuss wrote:
> > So, no, it is not AFRINIC leasing IPs to you, it is you, as an LIR and
> > a stakeholder in the internet who  participate in a voluntary
> > cooperative basis to empower AFRINIC to run its registration database.
> the premise of this argument is incorrect. the internet (not just the
> RIR system) is built around centralised registration systems.
> uniqueness requires this. we have a single IANA, a single DNS root
> system, and a similarly designed single numbering system (per protocol).
> snubbing uniqueness and standards can be fun; that’s akin to
> saying: i want to run my mail server on port 80 (which, of course, you
> can do). or, i want to run a alternate set of top level domains (which,
> was actually a thing, once!). and, of course, you can simply thumb suck
> address space and an asn too. good luck with making any of that work at
> scale.
> as a member you do not empower afrinic. if anything, the _single best
> thing_ that afrinic has ever done, was to empower african networks (ie.
> its members) into getting their own address space. afrinic’s pdp
> meant that african network operators could get an IPv4 /22, which was
> *considerably* easier to obtain than a /19 from arin at the time.
> as a community, you empower afrinic via its pdp process.
> —n.
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