[zanog-discuss] vote in the upcoming afrinic elections.
nishal at controlfreak.co.za
Fri May 28 13:02:11 SAST 2021
On 27 May 2021, at 19:27, Paul Wollner wrote:
> Hi Nishal
> I have to disagree with you.
this is why we debate :-)
> It is members’, including all the businesses’ choice to be part of
> AFRINIC member base, empowering AFRINIC.
actually, it is not. in 2004, arin had their regional public policy
discussion meeting in dar es salaam (hi frank!) and i asked a similar
question. and i got a reply from arin, and the ripe-ncc (and not
afrinic) indicating how they would be dealing with allocations post
formation of afrinic. i am afraid you won’t like the answer :-)
> If a large percentage of the membership disagree with AFRINIC, and
> setup XNIC and run its own database, they entirely can.
and i want to believe that i am young and beautiful. but the world says
(and operates) otherwise.
anyway, the anarchist in me is curious; break down XNIC for us please.
at base, you’d need a source for addresses, and given that the
addresses that you have now are *leased* from afrinic, you’d have to
return these. to get supply from an IANA you’d need to subscribe to
an ICP-2-type  document, and, frankly, i’m curious as to how you
see that happening.
> No law in the world forces you to recognise AFRINIC, or any RIR for
> that matter’s database as the only athletic database of the
> internet. The decentralised nature of the internet allow any part of
> it to leave or join at anytime.
> So if enough members of RIR system choose a different system, and
> choose to refuse to recognise the RIR system tomorrow, they have the
> rights to do so and no law in any country prevent that.
just like how you can run your mail server on tcp:80. we have already
seen how that played out; see my comment about the ALT-ROOTs from
it isn’t about law, paul; it’s about agreeing to co-operate in a
self-governing system. that is what keeps the internet moving and
growing. if you want to talk about introducing law, then, many things
change, and not necessarily for the better. i engage with enough
policy-makers to know that if we simply let them loose on the internet,
that’s not going to end up in an outcome that serves either party
well. believe me when i say, i speak with abject frustration here.
> The cooperation of business to AFRINIC’s registration database are
> entirely VOLUNTARY, and by its nature, it is the members that empower
> AFRINIC, not the other way around.
paul, i’m not sure why you think this works in this manner.
it really doesn’t, and i fear it is going to take more than just a
quick reply to a mailing list to explain this.
perhaps the ZANOG adming team can setup some tutorial to help educate
> No body “own” those “integers”, let alone “let African
> network gets their own address space”.
yes, they are leased. we know this :-)
[snip a lot of spurious rhetoric]
> Your very argument claim they still have free space.
i made no such claim. i simply want to correct the misrepresentation of
how the INR system works. because you might *want* it to work in a
particular manner, does not mean that this is how it operates.
> And I am here try to save the organisation before it collapses, and
> make sure future distribution of space will be effective, members have
> freedom to manage their space, and with a functioning open transparent
i can respect the desire to do good. so, as ben has already asked, how
do you see yourself accomplishing this?
ie. what changes are you proposing? i should add that i am vaguely
worried that someone who is proposing an alternate XNIC type system
wants to be on the board of an existing NIC, but, i’m ever-hopeful (hi
andrew!) that i misinterpreted what you wrote.
regardless, good luck to you, mark, and vika.
 for the casual reader, ICP-2 is the document that defines the
criteria for a new RIR. see
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