[zanog-discuss] vote in the upcoming afrinic elections.

Paul Wollner paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net
Thu May 27 15:54:29 SAST 2021


Hello Edrich,



So to sum up your entire argument: Because you don't like someone, and that someone being one of my supporters, you are making a baseless accusation saying that someone that acts in "self-preservation?"  is somehow evil? And I am evil because of that as well?



I totally fail to grasp your logic here.



Firstly I have never denied the community process. Like any democratic candidate, I tell the community what I feel can be improved and what went wrong, what I can do to make it better.  So, to the contrary, I am exactly following that very process to gain community awareness of the situation and improve the organisation, and that is exactly how consensus can be  achieved in any community: someone put out a voice, and people may or may not agree with it, but hear and understand that voice.



And now, you are denying me my voice, simply because of one  of my supporters that you don't like.



As for the RSA, it is a company legal document that a board member can push for a change, and no, it is not a document for the community. As for ARINIC members, they can comment on it, but the deciding power still lies with the board, please read the bylaw.



"particularly when those predilictions pertain to stripping the RIR of its presently most prized possession for external fiscal gain."



Unless you provide strict proof to the above, I will call you out for making a defamation claim on me personally and I kindly ask you to stop. As I mentioned in the other mail, RIR does not have possessions, and to think IP is their possession is the thing most wrong about them.  Please read my last email and understand how the system works before you make baseless accusations in future. I include a copy below:

-------------------------------

The "IP resources" in question are integers. The resources are registered by IANA in a central registry as being administered by a particular RIR (such as AFRINIC) in very large groups (8-bit prefixes for 32-bit IPv4 addresses prior to free pool depletion, 12-bit prefixes for 128-bit IPv6 addresses, and other sized groupings for 32-bit autonomous system numbers). AFRINIC then subsequently registers smaller groups of addresses and/or autonomous system numbers to its resource members, according to the policies set by the community for the administration of the registry. While AFRINIC's contract claims that it grants an exclusive right to use the numbers in a particular way, the reality is that AFRINIC has no such power to grant or revoke any sort of right to use. AFRINIC's abilities are limited to the registration of resources to preserve uniqueness among cooperating parties. It is this voluntary cooperation regarding uniqueness by the vast majority of ISPs that actually empowers the registry with any form of meaning whatsoever.

-------------------------------



Regards

Paul










---- On Thu, 27 May 2021 12:37:39 +0200 Edrich de Lange <edd at edd.za.net> wrote ----


Hi Paul

If you are equating sponsorship to a financial transaction, that is not what I meant.  There are many reported cases of random strangers telephoning up local network operators and being walked through the voting process and being told to vote for you, by LF … acolytes.

Individuals spending time mining contact details from WHOIS,  spending time phoning people, this all costs time somewhere, and in at least the one case, it was a Larus “Sourcing Specialist” from their website, so it is staff members.

That is sponsorship …


Moreover, I find nothing wrong with an RIR being sued. In fact, the current way AFRINIC is running, I am not surprised at all, an RIR is not a god, they are here to serve the community and I believe they are currently doing a poor job. That is the exact reason I want to change it by being a board member, for any one who has an  interest in the free running of their business, in the interest of protecting their rights to use their IPs as they see fit, I am here for them.



Perhaps that was poorly phrased, no entity is infallible.  In fact, many members of this community were happily in line to do just that, via an industry representative body.

But Paul, what you are not recognising is that there is a huge difference between “rough consensus” in a community where multiple parties feel that they want change acting together, to preserve the system, integrity,  spirit and intent of the organisation … and a single, large, individual that’s acting in self-preservation.

The self-preservation part is what I think is causing the conflict of interest, no?

You wrote earlier about changing the RSA,  a board member does not get any special treatment when it comes to the development, and changes, of the RSA.  The RSA has changed several times in the past few years, and the change, although overseen by AfriNIC’s legal team, has always come back to AfriNIC’s membership for comment and approval.  A board seat is neither necessary, nor useful, to effect change in this manner.   Simply, participation is.

I think that if you really want what’s best for AfriNIC you would realise that riding in on the coattails of an IP broker that has a pending lawsuit against the very organisation that you purport to want to lead,  and that has a history of supporting dissidents in policy discussions is probably not the best approach.  One might even argue that recognising what is in AfriNIC's - or more importantly, this community's - best interests, also means not getting involved in a questionable push for inexperienced chairs of the PDWG, using false nominations from individuals who had never met them.

I applaud you wanting to get involved, to facilitate change.  I respect that.  I am also fairly new to dealing with AfriNIC, and trying to participate where I can.  As a resource member, what I feel that Afrinic needs now are people that have a clean slate, and the minimum amount of blemishes to help in this transformation.  What it does not need are individuals that are preconceived to particular predilictions, particularly when those predilictions pertain to stripping the RIR of its presently most prized possession for external fiscal gain.

Kind regards

Edd

On 27 May 2021, at 10:49, Paul Wollner wrote:




Hello Edrich



I am not sponsored by any one for the board seat, and last time I checked, AFRINIC board seat is a voluntary position that any one can run for free of charge. Where is this sponsorship thing you referring to coming from? Surely someone is spreading rumours to make me fail, which I believe it is both unethical and immoral to spread unverified information.



I am doing this for what I believe is the best for the community. Please do not attack me based on rumours and unverified information.



Moreover, I find nothing wrong with an RIR being sued. In fact, the current way AFRINIC is running, I am not surprised at all, an RIR is not a god, they are here to serve the community and I believe they are currently doing a poor job. That is the exact reason I want to change it by being a board member, for any one who has an  interest in the free running of their business, in the interest of protecting their rights to use their IPs as they see fit, I am here for them.



Regards

Paul Wollner











---- On Thu, 27 May 2021 08:32:08 +0200 Edrich de Lange <mailto:edd at edd.za.net> wrote ----


Hi Paul


Alrighty, perhaps having an IP broker as your primary sponsor may be overlooked.  But surely, there’s a conflict of interest when the organisation that is sponsoring you for a board seat is also the one that’s trying to sue the RIR?


Kind regards

Edd

On 26 May 2021, at 18:09, Paul Wollner via zanog-discuss wrote:


Hello Everyone,



I do apologise to anyone for the disruption that my campaign process has caused, and I promise it is only a one-time communication. If I’m denied this opportunity, there will not be a second time. As with any democratic process, being part of a community and receiving messages from candidates are just part of a democratic society.



To answer the question that was asked, no, I do not see any problem with an IP broker supporting me, or anyone else for that matter.



As to your question, the “IP resources” in question are integers. The resources are registered by IANA in a central registry as being administered by a particular RIR (such as AFRINIC) in very large groups (8-bit prefixes for 32-bit IPv4 addresses prior to free pool depletion, 12-bit prefixes for 128-bit IPv6 addresses, and other sized groupings for 32-bit autonomous system numbers). AFRINIC then subsequently registers smaller groups of addresses and/or autonomous system numbers to its resource members, according to the policies set by the community for the administration of the registry. While AFRINIC’s contract claims that it grants an exclusive right to use the numbers in a particular way, the reality is that AFRINIC has no such power to grant or revoke any sort of right to use. AFRINIC’s abilities are limited to the registration of resources to preserve uniqueness among cooperating parties. It is this voluntary cooperation regarding uniqueness by the vast majority of ISPs that actually empowers the registry with any form of meaning whatsoever.



So, no, it is not AFRINIC leasing IPs to you, it is you, as an LIR and a stakeholder in the internet who  participate in a voluntary cooperative basis to empower AFRINIC to run its registration database.



I do have a problem with the current AFRINIC RSA that contain provisions overstepping its boundaries, the rules of registration should be made though a community process in a bottom up manner. However, RSA is not part of that process and is solely drafted by lawyers. It is a top down document that all LIR are forced to sign, any resource registration clause should not be part of RSA and should all refer to the policy the community are making.



And changing the RSA and bylaws to empower the community is exactly what I am hoping to do. The rules should be set by the community, not AFRINIC’s lawyer with no hands in the network.



The board shouldn’t make rules, they made rules in the past through the RSA and bylaws and I am determined to change that so everyone is protected and has the freedom to run their network as they see fit.



Regards

Paul Wollner














---- On Wed, 26 May 2021 16:19:33 +0200 Amreesh Phokeer <mailto:amreesh.phokeer at gmail.com> wrote ----


Hi all,

I would also echo what Saul just mentioned. 

The IP blocks were allocated based on your needs, if you don't need them anymore, please send them back to the AFRINIC pool and let others benefit from them.



It's funny how some people think that IP addresses are like bitcoins and can be traded off.



My 2 cents.







On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 4:29 PM Saul Stein via zanog-discuss <mailto:zanog-discuss at lists.nog.net.za> wrote:

Hi Paul, 

 

Firstly, you haven’t answered Warrick’s question.

 

My understanding is as follows:

 

I think that you have a few issues mistaken.

 

Firstly you don’t own IP resources, they are allocated to you / leased from the RIR for YOUR dedicated use.

 

You are complaining that due to the rules of AFRINIC, you can’t change your business model. This is nothing new and we’re all in the same boat. If WE have an issue with that, its OUR fault, because
 WE make the rules, not the BOARD.

Your misconception here is that the board makes the rules for AFRINIC. The rules contained in the CPM are comprised of policies discussed and approved via the bottom up approach of the entire community
 through rough consensus in the PDWG (https://afrinic.net/policy/manual#:~:text=About%20the%20CPM,-Version%201.6%20Click&text=Policies%20are%20created%20through%20a,and%20adopted%20(by%20AFRINIC).)

The board only enforces the rules the community creates.

 

The board has doesn’t make the rules, If you think that you are going fix this problem by being on the board, I am very worried. If its policy change you’re after, get involved in the PDWG and make
 the change you are after.

 

Just my 2c

Saul

 

 

From: zanog-discuss <mailto:zanog-discuss-bounces at lists.nog.net.za> On Behalf Of Paul Wollner via zanog-discuss
 Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:37
 To: Warrick Boyd <mailto:warrick at gigazone.co.za>
 Cc: mailto:zanog-discuss at lists.nog.net.za
 Subject: Re: [zanog-discuss] vote in the upcoming afrinic elections.


 

Hello everyone,


 


I would like to make my thoughts clear here.


 


I have nothing against IP brokers. In fact, as four out of the five RIRs have IP brokers listed in their website, I believe IP brokers exist for a legitimate business reason.


 


I am running in this position to protect the interest of all IP address holders in the continent. While in all the other regions you have freedom to manage your network however
 you want, in this region, AFRINIC’s CEO just made clear that if you even want even a slight change on the purpose of your usage of IP, you will need report to AFRINIC("Members should notify AFRINIC about any change impacting allocated IP Number resources and
 surrender to AFRINIC any IP number resources no longer required." - Eddy Kayihura - CEO of AFRINIC). Effectively, you surrender your freedom to manage your network to AFRINIC at its entirety.


 


Moreover, if you experience a downturn in your business, in the entire world except in AFRINIC, you can monetise your IPs for 30 USD per IP in a free, open market, while here,
 AFRINIC ask you to give it back to them for free. I don’t think it is fair to any of the IP resource holders in the continent.


 


So to make my campaign message clear: If you hold IP addresses, I would like to protect your freedom to manage your own network, not facing risk of loss of rights to use those
 IPs because every little change of your business needs report back to AFRINIC. I also would like to protect your freedom just like any RIR in the rest of the world, to monetise your rights of to use your IPs when you are in economic down turn. I believe it
 is in the interest of all members.


 


Regards


Paul Wollner


 


 


 


 



 


 


 

---- On Tue, 25 May 2021 23:26:50 +0200 Warrick Boyd <mailto:warrick at gigazone.co.za> wrote ----


 

Quick campaign question for you

 

Don’t you think it’s odd to have an IP Broker being your most prolific supporter?

 

Warrick

 

 

From: zanog-discuss <mailto:zanog-discuss-bounces at lists.nog.net.za> On Behalf Of Paul Wollner via zanog-discuss
 Sent: Tuesday, 25 May 2021 13:02
 To: zanog-discuss <mailto:zanog-discuss at lists.nog.net.za>
 Subject: [zanog-discuss] vote in the upcoming afrinic elections.


 

Apologies for starting a new thread, but I was not subscribed to the list.


 


 


In regards to Jaco's statement, I would like to reiterate my statement that I submitted at the time.


This was not a case of IP hijacking, a third party, not related to myself or my business, in error used the MacroLan ASN number. At that stage I was no longer
 with MacroLan (now SEACOM). As mentioned before, SEACOM / MaroLan failed to remove the respective IRR entries when the customer left and this caused the confusion later down the line when the 3rd party advertised the prefix.


As I have not seen the off list communications, I cannot comment on that.


 


I am not looking to use this platform to rally votes in my favour, or speak negatively of others, however I feel that I have been in this industry long enough
 and I now finally am in a position where I have enough free time to dedicate to the community to make a difference. I have nothing against Mark and I feel that he is a strong candidate and I feel that either of us will do a great job. Mark has sat in this
 position before and I think it is time for new blood.


 


Regards


Paul Wollner



 





 



 



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Amreesh Phokeer












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